I've been seeing more and more responses from pro-lifers on this board and others that are similar to the one below. These posts frighten, sadden, enrage, and embarrass me all at once! If this is our "public" face, it's no wonder that some think we're loony zealots. Come on! Anyone with me?

Spineless broads like you are the problem with the pro-life movement. Bob Enyart was correct when he said that the pro-life movement started to go south when groups put more women on their boards in response to the criticism of the pro-abort groups charge that "pro-life groups are headed by men".

You've got to be kidding, right?

Murder is murder. When we don't acknowledge that moms who have their baby's arms and legs and heads ripped off and thrown in the trash are in fact murdering an innocent human person, we give the message that its really not that big of a deal to have their baby aborted. We tell them that its not really murder, its something less than that. They need to hear the words "murder" and "murderer".

Yes, murder is murder, but abortion is not murder because it is not done in malice. It is not done in malice. It is done in desperation. It is done with tears. It is done with regret a lot of the time.

The groups who say "Whatever dicision you make we support you" are the worst groups out there. That is a vile response to the murder of innocent persons to say "If ya murder your baby or not we support you!" Its extremely vile. It murder. All those who consider murdering their children need to think immediately that if they abort their baby that will make them a murderer.
Can you squeeze the word murder in there any more Zeke? Have you heard of speaking the truth in love? How are you being kind to those who are in danger of having an abortion? Do you think any woman in her right mind would come to you to discuss it??

This is EXTREMELY important in order to re-stigmatize abortion to the level it needs to be stigmatized.

You've got to be kidding me again, right?

Those who murder their children are to be given a fair and speed trial and upon conviction executed. That goes for children murdered outside of the womb as well as inside the womb. Those who consider murdering their child need to have a GREATER fear of being executed in response to their crime then their fear about how they will take care of their child and get by living as a mother.
:::Head explodes::::


Anonymous said...

I keep checking back, hoping for a new post. Please try to update us with some new insight when you can.

Rose said...

I wish I could Rachael. :) If time would ever permit me to, I'd love it! Right now, everything else has to happen first though. I hope you're well!

Anonymous said...

Hey there! Just needed a couple of things: 1)You might be interested in the Canadian website "ProLifeProWoman.org" which a similar approach to abortion as your own and 2)Thank you for featuring my web journal in your side links. Just wanted to let you know that the name of my journal has been changed to "Reflections of Life"

Anonymous said...

When Jesus died on the cross for our sins, it was finished. We're no longer guilty because He paid the price for us. Most of us don't like to think about it much, but according to the 10 commandments, if we've told even one lie, we're liars, stolen once, thieves, and get this, if we even look at someone with lust, according to God, we're committed adultry in our hearts! So, we're more wicked than we know or imagine, but loved and forgiven more than we could possibly fathom. I've said this to say that although most women don't have an abortion because they hate and want to kill thier babies, nevertheless, they have knowingly or unknowingly taken a human life and Jesus paid the price for every baby that's aborted and killed. What needs to happen is for whoever has done this, to admit that it is murder and ask for forgiveness. He forgives, but we have to repent and recognize our sin.

Anonymous said...

You Don’t Have To Be Religious To Be Pro-life!

Live & Let Live is an atheist and agnostic group, which opposes war, the death penalty, euthanasia, abortion and poverty, because they are violations of the Right to Life and not because of any religious or moral reasons. We believe that ethical conduct between people engenders Respect, Peace, Justice & Reconciliation. We see The Right to Life of people as inseparably entwined and interconnected with the right to a life free from cruelty, injustice, violence, poverty, fear, discrimination and oppression and we support tolerance of different ways of living, cultures, race, and beliefs. We use the 'common ground' approach with our opponents and campaign in a positive spirit unhindered by religious or party political dogma to stop the State Killing.

The Right To Life
The Right to Life is protected by Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights 1948 therefore, we oppose any violations to the Right To Life on the grounds of human rights and not on a religious or political basis, whether by:

1. War - we oppose all war (and the arms trade) and in particular the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars and urge that the Troops Come Home! We promote peaceful, non-violent conflict resolution and support the Movement for Abolition of War.

2. Abortion - We oppose abortion (where a woman’s life is in real and imminent danger, though we accept the need to separate the mother and child by early delivery, making every attempt, if possible, to save both) and we support women’s rights, free access to non-violent and confidential family planning, including free contraceptives and sterilization. We support people who choose to give their “unwanted” baby for adoption and we support pro-life feminism and the consistent ethic movement.
Our opposition to abortion is based on the scientific fact that human life begins at fertilisation (see Natural History Museum) and not on any religious or moral grounds.

3. Euthanasia - We oppose medical treatments that cause death to patients and any move to introduce assisted suicide or euthanasia. We campaign to ensure that mentally and physically disabled, infirm and elderly people obtain their full rights and that their right to life is fully respected.

4. Eugenics - we oppose the eugenic practice of screening pregnant women for disabled babies in time for an abortion. We support ethical scientific experiments and condemn vivisection of born and unborn disabled humans, and other animals and gene therapy that abuses unborn humans.

5. Executions – we oppose the death penalty in all countries and extra-judicial killings whether the deaths occurred in custody e.g. in prisons or police cells or elsewhere.

6. Globalisation - we are anti-globalisation, because it, controlled by World Trade Organisation, International Monetary Fund and World Bank contributes to world poverty that causes millions of deaths. We expose the link between population control, profit making and government social engineering, which lead to violations to the right to life.

"Man creates his own values, his own rational and effective attachments and his own motives for action. To live is not enough, he needs reasons to live. But without life there are no reasons to live, no values. Life, therefore, as the essential condition of all values, must be cherished above them all, and must be held sacred. Any counterargument is invalid because the mind that advances the argument would not be there if life were not respected..... As sacred, human life must not be destroyed, or played with, or impaired, or wilfully and callously exposed to afflictions."

Difference & Diversity
Live & Let Live – an old fashioned phrase – new way of living

When a person uses the phrase “Live and Let Live” it is an indication that they are tolerant of people different from him/herself. You don’t have to agree with how someone else lives - just show them tolerance and respect, that’s enough. Leaving people alone who are different from you (especially a minority group) shows maturity and common sense. Further, by supporting people who are different is a way of showing that we all have a common bond - the bond of humanity. Then going the final step and working to overcome the prejudices and hatred that some people show towards those who are different, is a way of promoting civil rights and the dignity of all people.

The Aims of Live & Let Live

By using the media, e.g. national and local media and alternative media e.g. Indymedia UK, talks in schools and groups, stalls, public meetings, Freshers Fayre, leaflets and briefings we promote the secular case for the consistent right to life and for the right to different and promote respect for diversity. We tackle subjects ranging from euthanasia of disabled unborn babies to gay men facing capital punishment in countries that oppress gays.

We challenge organisations like Amnesty International & Human Rights Watch to be consistent in their support for human rights – see the briefing by Debby Wakeham called “The Right To Know – A Briefing on Abortion”.

3. We challenge the mass media stereotype of pro-life people all being religious. We are pro-life and not religious - we are atheist and agnostic! We expose the censorship of secular pro-life views from non-religious consistent right to life campaigners, for instance, the human rights case against abortion. The so-called “Pro-Life” movement, e.g. SPUC and Life who call themselves pro-life have done more harm than good to the cause for the right to life. We say that, is not really pro-life as they exclude the rights of the disabled, they don’t mention war, death penalty or poverty.

4. With regard to abortion, we highlight the circumstances that drive women to consider abortion in the first place, for instance pregnant women losing their jobs or accommodation. Also, we acknowledge the pain of those who have lost their offspring to the abortion industry. We’re not judgemental towards women who have abortions – we understand their plight and have compassion for how they feel before and after the abortion.

5. We want to bring the Human Rights Act 1998 to life in society through our initiative called Civil Rights Action. We will work with people who have evidence of civil rights abuses, publicise their cases, provide support for victims of abuses and organise civil rights presentations to raise awareness of rights abuse. We want people to get in touch with the idea that Rights and Liberties are for EVERYONE – so we will provide information leaflets, civil rights briefings and conduct talks / debates in public.

If you wish to know more about any of the subjects above please contact us now at:
Live & Let Live, Debby and Peter Wakeham, (Founders), England.
Email: kittyplant@btinternet.com Mobile: 07810 025818

Posted by Live & Let Live at 14:30 0 comments

Ladybug said...

Not sure what to make of the previous comment. The previous commentor has posted the same comment elsewhere, at a lot of pro-life blogs.

Harper said...

Judging from your comments on their comments (which were incredibly callous, btw), I think I have finally found someone I can share my views with.

I believe abortion is wrong, although I also believe it should be available when the mother's life is in danger. But my main issue is not that abortion exists and is legal, it is that there is demand. If the demand did not exist, the supply would go away--Roe v. Wade would be moot. There are so many social problems that make adoption and other options seem unfeasible to the woman caught in an unplanned pregnancy and so many problems that make avoiding that pregnancy seem impossible. I know many women who have had abortions and wish they had not, but on examining their circumstances, I cannot, in good conscience condemn their actions. It is a bad decision forced by other worse circumstances.

You may very well disagree with me on those points, but it leads to my conclusion that the all-or-nothing view held by so many on both sides is dead wrong. I want more regulation. There is absolutely no reason that abortion techniques should be so brutal. And the more brutal they are for the baby, the greater the risk of side effects and complications for the mother. Let's force abortionists to use gentler techniques, if they must use them at all. I think it is disgusting that Planned Parenthood receives government funding, not only on a moral level, but because it is ethically wrong for such a divisive issue to get tax dollars. If someone wants to donate, they can, we shouldn't all be forced to. Let's create a society where a woman who makes a bad decision (and gets pregnant when she didn't plan to) is not stigmatized when she chooses to keep the child--this is a tendency I've seen on both sides. Let's create a culture that promotes fertility rather than sterility.

I think that each of these points would easily get traction on the pro-choice side, and would go a long way to making this world a place in which we want to have children.

Rose said...

Hi Harper,

Nice to have you here! I agree with most of your points, especially with the idea of supply and demand. Even if Roe were to be overturned tomorrow, the demand for abortion would still be there. It's the demand that we need to speak to - not the legality of it.

Anyway, good of you to comment! See you around. :)

Anonymous said...

The author wrote: "abortion is not murder because it is not done in malice."

You're right that abortion is justifiable homicide, not murder, but absence of malice is not the reason. It's because the fetus is: 1. located inside the body of someone who does not want it there, 2. living by bloodstream-to-bloodstream chemical exchange without the other person's continuing consent, and 3. preparing to subject its mother to major medical/surgical trauma against her will.

Rose said...

Hi SoMG :)

I am not arguing that it is justifiable homicide...just that it is not murder. It's something else entirely. The only reason I say it isn't murder is because the legal definition of murder is specific:

From Wikipedia:
Common law murder is defined as the: 1. unlawful 2. killing 3. of another human person 4. with a state of mind known as "malice aforethought." The first three elements are relatively straightforward; however, the concept of "malice aforethought" is a complex one that does not necessarily mean premeditation. The following states of mind are recognized as constituting the various forms of "malice aforethought": (i) Intent to kill; (ii) Intent to inflict serious bodily harm short of death; (iii) Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life (sometimes described as an "abandoned and malignant heart"); or (iv) Intent to commit a dangerous felony (the "felony-murder" doctrine).

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